Survival Times and Dog Cancer
Dr. Demian Dressler is internationally recognized as “the dog cancer vet” because of his innovations in the field of dog cancer management, and the popularity of his blog here at Dog Cancer Blog. The owner of South Shore Veterinary Care, a full-service veterinary hospital in Maui, Hawaii, Dr. Dressler studied Animal Physiology and received a Bachelor of Science degree from the University of California at Davis before earning his Doctorate in Veterinary Medicine from Cornell University. After practicing at Killewald Animal Hospital in Amherst, New York, he returned to his home state, Hawaii, to practice at the East Honolulu Pet Hospital before heading home to Maui to open his own hospital. Dr. Dressler consults both dog lovers and veterinary professionals, and is sought after as a speaker on topics ranging from the links between lifestyle choices and disease, nutrition and cancer, and animal ethics. His television appearances include “Ask the Vet” segments on local news programs. He is the author of The Dog Cancer Survival Guide: Full Spectrum Treatments to Optimize Your Dog’s Life Quality and Longevity. He is a member of the American Veterinary Medical Association, the Hawaii Veterinary Medical Association, the American Association of Avian Veterinarians, the National Animal Supplement Council and CORE (Comparative Orthopedic Research Evaluation). He is also an advisory board member for Pacific Primate Sanctuary.
Updated: December 17th, 2020
I recently got a comment from a reader who was quite upset with her veterinarian because he didn’t fully explain the survival times he expected with her dog’s cancer.
Her dog underwent a splenectomy (spleen removal), presumably for treatment of a hemangiosarcoma (a malignant tumor of the blood vessel walls) of the spleen. This dog lover was incensed that the vet indicated this procedure, combined with the removal of a lipoma (fatty tumor) at the same time, would extend her dog’s life for a “long time.”
Later she was dismayed to find out, according to certain people, that this procedure would only extend her dog’s life for an additional 3-6 months. To her, this was not a “long time.” She became “furious” at her vet, reasoned that the vet was trying to get her money, and sent in the comment.
I think there are various aspects to this scenario that deserve attention.
Hindsight Is 20/20
First, it’s important to remember that hindsight is always 20/20, but we can never be sure if we will be accurate in the future. No matter how well-educated or experienced any veterinarian is, their word should never be understood as “completely accurate.”
Veterinarians are humans, too, and sometimes we say something vague when we should be more specific. And sometimes we just have a different perspective than a layperson, and don’t realize that we’re communicating badly.
So whenever your veterinarian suggests a time frame or talks about side effects, you should ask as many questions as you need to be sure that you are really understanding what they mean. Don’t be embarrassed or hesitant.
Being your dogs primary health care advocate implies that the information is gathered before the action is executed. Although it is not always natural, I think it is so important for everyone to please try to gather as much data as you can before embarking on what can be a complicated journey. This was one of my main reasons for writing the Dog Cancer Survival Guide.
Take a look at the chapter on working with your veterinarian for a detailed list of questions you could be asking your veterinarian. It will help you to get organized.
For more invaluable tools and information, get a copy of the Dog Cancer Survival Guide
What’s a “Long Time” When It Comes to Survival Times?
I assume that from the vet’s perspective, the removal of the dog’s spleen would indeed extend life for “a long time.”
But this is relative, right? What does that a “long time” mean, really? It depends upon your perspective.
Some animals only live a few days. Others live decades and a few live hundreds of years. A long time is different for each of these creatures.
For example, for a creature who is expected to live an average of two years, one year is half the lifespan. One year is not “a long time” for humans unless you are a five-year-old who wants to be six. But for the two-year-lifespan creature, that’s definitely a long time.
Dogs have an average life expectancy of 12 years. So one year is 8.3% of life for dogs. (Here is a good link for average life expectancies.)
For perspective, humans on average have a life expectancy of 72.6 years. So for humans, 8.3% of their lifespan is 6 years.
Is that a long time? It depends upon your viewpoint. If I’m a father looking at my little girl, and the doctor is telling me that she will probably live another 6 years, I’m not thinking “hey, great, that’s 8.3% of her lifespan!” No. I’m thinking, “she’s only going to live to be 12??” Six years is not “a long time” in this scenario. At least, not to me.
But if I’m looking at an elderly relative who is sick, and a doctor tells me he is probably going to live another 6 years, I might feel relief. Living close to the average lifespan of a human is often considered “a long time” when we near the end of our lives.
Managing Expectations When You Hear Survival Times
Most dog lovers don’t really get just how short-lived dogs are. We just can’t even contemplate the fact of their death. It’s too painful, so we kind of forget it’s going to happen. This is REALLY common, even for those of us in the veterinary profession.
The average lifespan for my dog might be ten — but MY dog is going to live at least a decade longer. Right?
Unfortunately, no, it’s probably not. Although there are outliers, most dogs live about as long as their average lifespan would predict.
So when you hear your veterinarian tell you that your dog has “X amount of time,” it’s really useful to put that time into perspective for YOUR dog.
If your dog is 8, and the average lifespan for his weight and breed is 10 years, and your veterinarian tells you that his survival time for his cancer is about 18 months to two years, and calls that a “long time,” he’s right from a medical perspective. From a medical perspective, having a dog live the average lifespan is a good result.
But to you, the dog lover who wasn’t contemplating your dog’s eventual death, it might sound dismissive, or even like you are being “lied” to. But I promise you, no veterinarian is actually motivated to lie to you about outcomes.
You just might have different perspectives on them.
So is 3-6 Months a Long Time, or Not, Doc?
In the case of this reader, her dog had hemangiosarcoma, which is an aggressive disease.
A dog with hemangiosarcoma who gets a splenectomy, with no further care of any kind, could live 3 months or longer according to the statistics. (See the chapter on hemangiosarcoma for the many more detailed stats on this disease.)
With chemotherapy, a dog with hemangiosarcoma could have maybe 7 more months past diagnosis. So the addition of chemotherapy doubles the median survival time. But still, that might not seem like “a long time,” even though it’s doubled!
And as many readers who have battled hemangiosarcoma will attest, using all the full spectrum treatments — surgery, chemo, diet, supplements, and lifestyle modifications — could result in even longer survival times. And certainly great quality of life, which is what most of us most want for our dogs.
But is that true for EVERY dog? Of course not. Every dog is different, every cancer is different, and nothing is 100%.
The bottom line is this: everything is relative. Gather the data before you set sail and do what makes sense to you while using compass-ion as your compass.
Best to all,
Dr D
Dr. Demian Dressler is internationally recognized as “the dog cancer vet” because of his innovations in the field of dog cancer management, and the popularity of his blog here at Dog Cancer Blog. The owner of South Shore Veterinary Care, a full-service veterinary hospital in Maui, Hawaii, Dr. Dressler studied Animal Physiology and received a Bachelor of Science degree from the University of California at Davis before earning his Doctorate in Veterinary Medicine from Cornell University. After practicing at Killewald Animal Hospital in Amherst, New York, he returned to his home state, Hawaii, to practice at the East Honolulu Pet Hospital before heading home to Maui to open his own hospital. Dr. Dressler consults both dog lovers and veterinary professionals, and is sought after as a speaker on topics ranging from the links between lifestyle choices and disease, nutrition and cancer, and animal ethics. His television appearances include “Ask the Vet” segments on local news programs. He is the author of The Dog Cancer Survival Guide: Full Spectrum Treatments to Optimize Your Dog’s Life Quality and Longevity. He is a member of the American Veterinary Medical Association, the Hawaii Veterinary Medical Association, the American Association of Avian Veterinarians, the National Animal Supplement Council and CORE (Comparative Orthopedic Research Evaluation). He is also an advisory board member for Pacific Primate Sanctuary.
Our lab mix wa diagnosed with undifferentiated carcinoma cancer in he nose. We did radiation and now she’s doing chemo. her cancer is so agressive it’s not stopping to grow and she’s having a hard time breathing… It’s so frustrating and sad at the same time. We’re doing hollostic stuff too but I’m not really sure what direction to take. It’s emotionally and financially draining.
I would be so grateful for 6 months….even 3 months at this point. My 7 yr old Shar Pei, the love of my life, underwent mast cell removal from her front leg on 7/2/10 and we fully expected everything would be fine (clean margins, Grade II). Within 1 month the surgical site had another huge tumor (seemingly popping up out of nowhere). One week after that there were 4 tumors, then 7, and now (6 weeks post op) both legs and arm pits have tumors, and last night I found a large, golf ball sized mushy mass on the front of her neck (below her chin). She’s on Prednisone, Benadryl & Prilosec…..if the love I have for her could give her time, she’d live to be 100 but this horribly agressive cancer is taking her away from me more quickly than I ever thought possible. There wasn’t time for chemo or radiation before the recurrence, but if there had been I’m not sure I would have gone that route anyway. I spend every moment with her that I can and we play as much as she can (she gets to chew on my socks, my shoes, and drag the toilet paper out of the bathroom any time she wants!!) but every day I see her slipping away a little more. My once goofy side kick isn’t very goofy any more but I cherish every moment we spend together. I’ve cried more tears than I thought was humanly possible, taken lots of pictures, phone videos and even recorded her bark so I’ll be able to listen to it down the road. I’m rambling now….sorry. Thanks for letting me share.
Our youngest sons 15 year old Springer Spaniel was just diagnosed with cancer of the spleen. They give three weeks. She lives with us and plan to make her as comfortable as possible. She has lived a very full life and is very much loved. My walking partner for over 10 years. I retired her after surgery for nerve cancer several years ago. We have reassured our son we would follow his wishes for her whatever they maybe. She is on Meds for arthritis which has gotten her this far. Pain meds on hand when needed. All depends on our sons wishes which i know would be a pain free ending. It is great to read about other pet lovers and their history with their pets. Anyone want to share with me any tips that may help us. Thanks for listening.
Every dog is different. I found out today that my 10yr Shepard x Lab has cancer after 1 of 3 tumors burst on his spleen. Only opition surgery, I said my goodbyes and he came through. He is doing strong – then on the over hand my 5yr beligum x german shep had cancer, gave me a year if I did chemo – 2 months later i had to say goodbye. Now in the same sistuation, i am not doing the chemo.
I am looking for another way. Has anyone got any ideas of a diet that i can put him on? I have heard lots of protein and fish oil?
I am the person that Dr. Dressler is talking about. There was a lot of conversations with the vet prior to this splenectomy that make me believe he put Janie through it to make the payroll. The biggest thing you should know is that I asked him in his office if my dog would have a good quality of life. I actually said that I didn’t want to put her through a traumatic surgery to just have her “expire in 30 days”. At age seven she had radiation for mast cell tumors. She took it well and her life was extended for another 4 1/2 years. She is 11 1/2 now. I throughly questioned him. He knew I did not want to put my elderly dog through another procedure unless she had a year at least. He is not a young, inexperienced vet. He has a huge staff and also other full-time and part-time veterinarians under him. He is very proud of his state-of-the-art facility. I find it really hard to believe when I told him that she was having a bleedout (I guessed what it was by hearing about it belonging to multiple dog cancer groups on line due to Janie’s prior cancer.)I recognized what it was and he examined her and took ultrasounds and x-rays that he didn’t know it was hemangiosarcoma.
Karen Bruce Des Moines, Iowa
Another non-toxic cancer remedy is POLY-MVA for pets
Our 12 or 13 yr.old Rat Terrier was diagnosed with bladder cancer some months ago. Piraxocam was prescribed at 10 mg. Peree is a Decker Rat, so, is a 47 lb. pooch, but, I was not comfortable with the side effects I read about. I also believed that the dose was too high. I took him off all kibble–he was previously only given low inflammatory grain products—Solid Gold dog food with raw tripe from grass fed cows. He is now eating only raw organic chicken, raw grass-fed bison, raw lamb and the raw bones that are in these meats. We cut that Piraxacom dose in thirds, sometimes in half if it seems he nrrds more, and he gets Graviola herb tincture 3 or 4 times a day. This doggie is way too wiley for us to get anything at all in hin except food, so, it went in a little spray bottle and it gets sprayed on areas that are vascular and mostly hair free—-the inside of the ear flaps and all over his belly. He has a big thirst still—gets a water based homeopathic in his water for arthritis (he was hit by a car before we rescued him at 3 yrs of age), and still pees constantly. He has a big appatite, strong vital force, is happy to be with us, as we are happy to have him still here. I personally could never do some of the prescribed modalities that are suggested for our cherished pets that are diseased, and would rather spend the extra money on excellent nutrition and the highest quality non-toxic but powerful nutrients that I can get. There is a plethora of wonderful non-toxic choices out there if you can find the information on em.
On September 16, 2009 my lab underwent a spenectomy for a hemangiosarcoma. Unfortunately 4 weeks later others ruptured. On October 20, 2009, he was bleeding and had to be put to sleep. Although it was very expensive for the emergency surgery and the chemo plus other drug treatments he went through, his last weeks you would never had known he was sick. The doctors said 2 months with out treatment and up to 10 with. Every dog is different. He had treatment and didn’t make it to the minimum months they gave him. I do not regret it. It gave us 5 whole weeks to spend together. It’s not much time to some people, but it is more than if he did not have the surgery. To those out there reading this please think of the possitive. If you elect surgery or other means of helping with the cancer, every day is a gift to you. Whether it’s days, months, or years, it never seems enough. But be thankful for the days you do have together.
Life expectancy in regards to cancer, to me anyway, depends on so much. What my dog’s life quality will be during and after the treatment, the current age and temperament of my dog and unfortunately, my financial situation.
When my dog Sigmund was diagnosed with a tumor on his pancreas that kept causing his sugar to plummet and him to have seizures, I was told that removing it would give him another year. Unfortunately, Sigmund was 13 years old at the time and arthritic. I couldn’t see putting him through a major surgery. I might have been right, I might have been wrong, but that is always the problem with having to make these choices.
When my dog Skye was diagnosed with lymphoma, she was 6 years old and seemed in good health otherwise so I choose to do the chemo. Unfortunately she developed severe arthritis in her hips, but she and I got to spend another 1 1/2 years together and I have never regretted it. She was young enough to deal with the side effects and her personality was such that everyone who met her fell in love with her.
But its always an educated guess when these decisions come around. I trust my vet, I know she won’t tell me to do something just for the money. But, I also know that in the end, it is up to me to do the necessary research and find out what I can find out.
There was no guarantee that Skye would respond as well as she did to her chemo. Some dogs get 5 years, some dogs 5 months. There are so many variants involved, no one can give you a definite time frame.
So I feel bad for the woman who felt betrayed by her vet, but in her vet’s defense, for some people any option, even another 5 months, is better than nothing at all and it doesn’t have a thing to do with money.
There is also, unfortunately, a learning curve involved in care for a pet. After having and losing 6 dogs in my adult lifetime, I know more about what to expect and do than I did that first time I took a dog into the University’s emergency care for an MRI only to find out (over $650 later) she had advanced liver cancer and her body was already in the process of shutting down.
My advice for people who find themselves in these situations, follow your heart, but make sure your head understands what your choices might mean. In the end, we are the ones responsible for the decisions we make, or we allow others to make for us, but whatever happens we all only want what is best for our furry children.
Make sure you love and enjoy them fully while they are healthy, and ensure them as much dignity as possible when they are sick and/or elderly.
My collie, Sandie has a mass in her bladder. To large to remove
says the Vt. She said that we would start the medications and see
how she does. Clvamox for 14 days, DES one a day for 5 days then one a week, Pinoriam.Well she improved, no wetting her bed, and she started eating real good, i changed her diet after research. She has
gained 3 pounds in the last month.
I have an acre back yard of woods, she still walks her path around
the property about four times a day.
She still has trouble, she squates and it takes awhile for her to
finish. However she does not seem to be in any pain.
In fact yesterday she bolted out of the garage after a cat.
But this Monday we visited the Vt. and had urin test still some
blood in the urin, so now on another medication Zeniguin 100mg
one a day for 14 days.
With this medication she is spending more time in her bed and she
is not eating very much except what I feed her.
There should be something more that I can do to shrink this mass.
The Vt did not make any suggestions on this subject.
Sandie is 12 years old and she has really been my buddy. I am 89
and will 90 next August. So we are both seniors.
I am still researching for ideas and suggestions to extend her life.
All suggests are appreciated.