Survival Times and Dog Cancer
ByI recently got a comment from a reader who was quite upset with her veterinarian.
Turns out her dog underwent a splenectomy (spleen removal), presumably for treatment of a hemangiosarcoma (a malignant tumor of the blood vessel walls) of the spleen. This dog lover was incensed that the vet indicated this procedure, combined with removal of a lipoma (fatty tumor) at the same time, would extend her dog’s life for a “long time”.
Following the splenectomy, she was dismayed to find out, according to certain people, that this procedure would only extend her dogs life for an additional 3-6 months. Whereupon she became “furious” at her vet, reasoned that the vet was trying to get her money, and sent in the comment. My quotes indicate her wording.
I think there are various aspects to this scenario that deserve attention.
First and foremost, hindsight is 20-20. In cases of dog cancer, foresight is never 20-20. However, foresight can be sharpened considerably by education. I often will ramble on about “being your dog’s number one health advocate” and stress how information gathering is one of the initial steps that must be taken.
Most of us will research before buying a car. However, the health professional industry, over probably thousands of years, has created a mass-consciousness belief that information from a Doctor should not be questioned. I am sure that a whole book could be written about how and why this came about. Regardless of the genesis of this belief, it is now counter-intuitive for us to gather our own data about the care of our four legged family members.
Being your dogs primary health care advocate implies that the information is gathered before the action is executed. Although it is not always natural, I think it is so important for everyone to please try to gather as much data as you can before embarking on what can be a complicated journey. This was one of my main reasons for writing the Dog Cancer Survival Guide.
In the case of this blog reader, it could be argued that, from her vet’s perspective, the removal of the spleen would indeed extend her dog’s life for a long time. What does that phrase mean, anyway? A “long time”?
If one were to look at years of life in proportion to lifespan, a one year would be half the life of a creature expected to live two years. A year would indeed be a long time for this creature.
One year, in a dog with an average life expectancy of 12 years, is 8.3% of this dog’s life. (Here is a good link for average life expectancies.) Suppose a human were to live 80 years. 8.3% of that 80 years would be 6.67 years.
How about, say, 7 months for a dog? Well, for a dog expected to live for 12 years, this turns out to be 3.88 years of life for a human with a life span of 80 years.
Is 3.88 years a long time for a human? I don’t know. Could be. I guess it depends on your viewpoint.
A dog with a splenectomy following hemangiosarcoma and no further care of any kind could live 3 months (more than 1.5 “human” years) or longer. With chemo maybe 7, and with diet, supplements, and the rest of the full spectrum plan maybe much longer. Every dog is different. These details are included in the Guide.
Anyway, the bottom line is this: everything is relative. Gather the data before you set sail and do what makes sense to you while using “compass”-ion as your compass.
Best to all,
Dr D
About the Author
Dr. Demian Dressler, DVM is known as the "dog cancer vet" and is author of Dog Cancer Survival Guide: Beyond Surgery, Chemotherapy & Radiation. Visit his blog and sign up free to get the latest information about canine cancer. Go to http://DogCancerBlog.com.
18 Comments
November 10th, 2009 at 3:46 am
[...] original here: Survival Times and Dog Cancer Tags: blood-vessel-walls, foresight, hemangiosarcoma, hindsight-is-20-20, legged-family-members, [...]
November 10th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
well said Dr D!
November 13th, 2009 at 3:10 am
Enjoyed reading this, since my 10-year-old Golden Retriever is going through chemotheraphy treatment for hemangiosarcoma of the spleen as I write this. When I tell friends/family that chemotherapy will extend her life from 60 days to maybe 6 months, they always ask if it’s worth the cost, discomfort, etc. But I always respond that 6 months is longer for a dog’s lifespan than a humans….that’s equivalent to a few human years! So, i appreciate the perspective. Have enjoyed reading your blog and books!
November 13th, 2009 at 4:14 am
Interesting article, Dr. D. My 8-year-old Jack Russell terrier is currently in his 6th week of chemo for lymphoma, and his vet is hopeful for a 1-year remission even though he was misdiagnosed for 2 months and started off behind the curve. I just did the math, and a year for him is almost 6 years of human life….well worth it!
November 13th, 2009 at 4:33 am
My Golden Retriever was dx with a certain cancer, I don’t remember which, a number of yrs ago. But we ended up having h
November 13th, 2009 at 4:37 am
One of my Golden Retrievers was dx with a certain cancer, though, I don’t remember which, a number of yrs ago, and we had to amputate his r front leg. About 18 mons post surgery, I had to take him in for shots at which time the young vet, who had performed the surgery, was “astonished” at his current health and attitude and overall well being. I asked why she was so surprised, and her response was, “in his case, a large dog w/that cancer & amputation, statistically, their survival rate is just about 6 mons!” I was shocked as I clearly didn’t remember any sort of conversation to that outcome. We ended up helping him cross over the Rainbow Bridge 1 week prior to, what would have been, his 5 yr anniversary of that surgery.
November 13th, 2009 at 4:55 am
You have to decide first and foremost with any dx how far you are willling to go. 6 mo for me would be well worth the effort. I have had 2 dogs with cancer, a 13 year old malamute dx at age 11 with a stage 3 fibrosarcoma of the sinus,with tx (radiation and chemo) she has exceeded all expectations and is still with us. They guessed she may gain 12 months with tx as there is not much research with stage 3 outcomes. Our other dog was dx with stage 3 osteosarcoma and lived 18 months with an amputation until it “returned” (surgery does not cure the cancer in osteosarcoma) and then she went quickly. Do not fault your vet for giving you another 6 months,hopefully more. You will be grateful for the time you have gained. I highly encourage you research,research,research. Both our dogs were on an organic vegetarian diet after dx which I believe contributed to their longevity.
November 13th, 2009 at 4:56 am
Our 10 year old black lab/golden retriever mix was diagnosed with hemangiosarcoma in August of 2008. We were told from our vet, if no treatment after the surgery, expect 1-3 months extension of life. Well, we decided no further treatment after her splenectomy, *a huge tumor removed was cancerous* and would enjoy our Magic for whatever time she had left with us. Here she is today, healthy and happy and amazing us each day. I am sure we are an exception as from all I have read here and on other sites and words from out vets, our dog really beat the odds so I quess one can never know for sure. I do like your answers tho when you figure “long time in dog years vs. humans”, very good point to consider.
November 13th, 2009 at 5:24 am
We just had to let our 12-year old Weimaraner Jasper go on Saturday, 11/07/09. At age 5, he was diagnosed mast cell cancer (with nine grade 3 tumors popping up at once). He had surgery and chemo. Since he was young, working search and rescue dog and otherwise seemingly healthy, we thought chemo made sense at that time. He kept getting back tumors and, as he got older, we stopped doing the chemo as he grew more sensitive to it and it didn’t seem to effect whether or not he got more tumors. He had some periodic surgeries to cut them off. He was diagnosed with lymphoma in late July. Since the statistics are something like 90% of dogs will get a year remission with the Madison Protocol, we thought the odds were pretty good and, at 12 years old, he was not an old dog: not arthritic, could see and hear fine, and was still his happy self. Unfortunately, he turned out to be the 10% with chemo-resistant lymphoma. We tried CCNU (lomustine) as a last ditch drug as liver damage can be substantial and that worked for a partial remission for 3 doses. So, he only lived 3 months post-diagnosis with the chemo for lymphoma. So, he far outlived the vet’s expectations with the mast cell cancer and he didn’t live nearly as long as expected for the lymphoma treatment. While I believe everyone should educate themselves on the statistics and use that to help guide you in treatment decisions, please keep in mind that your dog might not follow them. I don’t think he would have made it the 3 months without the chemo and I cherish every good day he had that I could take him to the park. But, because of the statistics, my heart believed he could make it that year. I think its almost made it harder to accept his death. Just make sure every day counts because you really don’t know and understand your dog’s response to treatment may not follow the “norm”.
November 13th, 2009 at 7:48 am
Four years ago my then 10-year old Beagle came down with hemangiosarcoma and had surgery. We were supposed to have had
chemo as a follow-up. We decided against it. He lived two months
pretty much at full speed, enjoying life, then deteriorated rapidly
and we had him put to sleep. Right decision not to have chemo?
I don’t know. It haunts me to this day. I had read that urine from
a dog on chemo could put other pets at risk. We had an older Border
Collie and I had her in mind when I made the decision no chemo.
Like I said, it still haunts me.
November 13th, 2009 at 10:29 am
My collie, Sandie has a mass in her bladder. To large to remove
says the Vt. She said that we would start the medications and see
how she does. Clvamox for 14 days, DES one a day for 5 days then one a week, Pinoriam.Well she improved, no wetting her bed, and she started eating real good, i changed her diet after research. She has
gained 3 pounds in the last month.
I have an acre back yard of woods, she still walks her path around
the property about four times a day.
She still has trouble, she squates and it takes awhile for her to
finish. However she does not seem to be in any pain.
In fact yesterday she bolted out of the garage after a cat.
But this Monday we visited the Vt. and had urin test still some
blood in the urin, so now on another medication Zeniguin 100mg
one a day for 14 days.
With this medication she is spending more time in her bed and she
is not eating very much except what I feed her.
There should be something more that I can do to shrink this mass.
The Vt did not make any suggestions on this subject.
Sandie is 12 years old and she has really been my buddy. I am 89
and will 90 next August. So we are both seniors.
I am still researching for ideas and suggestions to extend her life.
All suggests are appreciated.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
Life expectancy in regards to cancer, to me anyway, depends on so much. What my dog’s life quality will be during and after the treatment, the current age and temperament of my dog and unfortunately, my financial situation.
When my dog Sigmund was diagnosed with a tumor on his pancreas that kept causing his sugar to plummet and him to have seizures, I was told that removing it would give him another year. Unfortunately, Sigmund was 13 years old at the time and arthritic. I couldn’t see putting him through a major surgery. I might have been right, I might have been wrong, but that is always the problem with having to make these choices.
When my dog Skye was diagnosed with lymphoma, she was 6 years old and seemed in good health otherwise so I choose to do the chemo. Unfortunately she developed severe arthritis in her hips, but she and I got to spend another 1 1/2 years together and I have never regretted it. She was young enough to deal with the side effects and her personality was such that everyone who met her fell in love with her.
But its always an educated guess when these decisions come around. I trust my vet, I know she won’t tell me to do something just for the money. But, I also know that in the end, it is up to me to do the necessary research and find out what I can find out.
There was no guarantee that Skye would respond as well as she did to her chemo. Some dogs get 5 years, some dogs 5 months. There are so many variants involved, no one can give you a definite time frame.
So I feel bad for the woman who felt betrayed by her vet, but in her vet’s defense, for some people any option, even another 5 months, is better than nothing at all and it doesn’t have a thing to do with money.
There is also, unfortunately, a learning curve involved in care for a pet. After having and losing 6 dogs in my adult lifetime, I know more about what to expect and do than I did that first time I took a dog into the University’s emergency care for an MRI only to find out (over $650 later) she had advanced liver cancer and her body was already in the process of shutting down.
My advice for people who find themselves in these situations, follow your heart, but make sure your head understands what your choices might mean. In the end, we are the ones responsible for the decisions we make, or we allow others to make for us, but whatever happens we all only want what is best for our furry children.
Make sure you love and enjoy them fully while they are healthy, and ensure them as much dignity as possible when they are sick and/or elderly.
November 13th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
On September 16, 2009 my lab underwent a spenectomy for a hemangiosarcoma. Unfortunately 4 weeks later others ruptured. On October 20, 2009, he was bleeding and had to be put to sleep. Although it was very expensive for the emergency surgery and the chemo plus other drug treatments he went through, his last weeks you would never had known he was sick. The doctors said 2 months with out treatment and up to 10 with. Every dog is different. He had treatment and didn’t make it to the minimum months they gave him. I do not regret it. It gave us 5 whole weeks to spend together. It’s not much time to some people, but it is more than if he did not have the surgery. To those out there reading this please think of the possitive. If you elect surgery or other means of helping with the cancer, every day is a gift to you. Whether it’s days, months, or years, it never seems enough. But be thankful for the days you do have together.
November 13th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
Our 12 or 13 yr.old Rat Terrier was diagnosed with bladder cancer some months ago. Piraxocam was prescribed at 10 mg. Peree is a Decker Rat, so, is a 47 lb. pooch, but, I was not comfortable with the side effects I read about. I also believed that the dose was too high. I took him off all kibble–he was previously only given low inflammatory grain products—Solid Gold dog food with raw tripe from grass fed cows. He is now eating only raw organic chicken, raw grass-fed bison, raw lamb and the raw bones that are in these meats. We cut that Piraxacom dose in thirds, sometimes in half if it seems he nrrds more, and he gets Graviola herb tincture 3 or 4 times a day. This doggie is way too wiley for us to get anything at all in hin except food, so, it went in a little spray bottle and it gets sprayed on areas that are vascular and mostly hair free—-the inside of the ear flaps and all over his belly. He has a big thirst still—gets a water based homeopathic in his water for arthritis (he was hit by a car before we rescued him at 3 yrs of age), and still pees constantly. He has a big appatite, strong vital force, is happy to be with us, as we are happy to have him still here. I personally could never do some of the prescribed modalities that are suggested for our cherished pets that are diseased, and would rather spend the extra money on excellent nutrition and the highest quality non-toxic but powerful nutrients that I can get. There is a plethora of wonderful non-toxic choices out there if you can find the information on em.
November 13th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
Another non-toxic cancer remedy is POLY-MVA for pets
November 17th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
I am the person that Dr. Dressler is talking about. There was a lot of conversations with the vet prior to this splenectomy that make me believe he put Janie through it to make the payroll. The biggest thing you should know is that I asked him in his office if my dog would have a good quality of life. I actually said that I didn’t want to put her through a traumatic surgery to just have her “expire in 30 days”. At age seven she had radiation for mast cell tumors. She took it well and her life was extended for another 4 1/2 years. She is 11 1/2 now. I throughly questioned him. He knew I did not want to put my elderly dog through another procedure unless she had a year at least. He is not a young, inexperienced vet. He has a huge staff and also other full-time and part-time veterinarians under him. He is very proud of his state-of-the-art facility. I find it really hard to believe when I told him that she was having a bleedout (I guessed what it was by hearing about it belonging to multiple dog cancer groups on line due to Janie’s prior cancer.)I recognized what it was and he examined her and took ultrasounds and x-rays that he didn’t know it was hemangiosarcoma.
Karen Bruce Des Moines, Iowa
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:16 am
Every dog is different. I found out today that my 10yr Shepard x Lab has cancer after 1 of 3 tumors burst on his spleen. Only opition surgery, I said my goodbyes and he came through. He is doing strong – then on the over hand my 5yr beligum x german shep had cancer, gave me a year if I did chemo – 2 months later i had to say goodbye. Now in the same sistuation, i am not doing the chemo.
I am looking for another way. Has anyone got any ideas of a diet that i can put him on? I have heard lots of protein and fish oil?
February 25th, 2010 at 6:03 pm
Our youngest sons 15 year old Springer Spaniel was just diagnosed with cancer of the spleen. They give three weeks. She lives with us and plan to make her as comfortable as possible. She has lived a very full life and is very much loved. My walking partner for over 10 years. I retired her after surgery for nerve cancer several years ago. We have reassured our son we would follow his wishes for her whatever they maybe. She is on Meds for arthritis which has gotten her this far. Pain meds on hand when needed. All depends on our sons wishes which i know would be a pain free ending. It is great to read about other pet lovers and their history with their pets. Anyone want to share with me any tips that may help us. Thanks for listening.