Comments on: Dog Cancer Decisions in the Gray Zone http://www.dogcancerblog.com/dog-cancer-decisions-in-the-gray-zone/ Dr. Demian Dressler, DVM, the dog cancer vet blogs about canine cancer Tue, 07 Sep 2010 19:46:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: DemianDressler http://www.dogcancerblog.com/dog-cancer-decisions-in-the-gray-zone/comment-page-1/#comment-3198 DemianDressler Sun, 05 Sep 2010 18:36:54 +0000 http://www.dogcancerblog.com/?p=1402#comment-3198 Dear Tricia, I am so sorry to hear this sad and traumatic experience. Two points for you: 1. The cancer took your dog. That's the bottom line. When one looks at it from the big picture, even if there were some side effects from the Kinavet (which is possible, in particular the vomiting and dehydration and maybe the liver stuff). The reason is that a dog does not quickly pass away like this (in what sounds like multisystem failure) typically from Kinavet. We know the cancer was disseminated and this was the critical issue causing the tipping point. 2. Please also read this post: http://www.dogcancerblog.com/signs-of-dog-cancer-and-decompensation/ There are more answers that you should read about in the Guide as to cancer progression and causes that would help you, and some steps for you as well that might help. Best, Dr D Dear Tricia,
I am so sorry to hear this sad and traumatic experience. Two points for you:
1. The cancer took your dog. That’s the bottom line. When one looks at it from the big picture, even if there were some side effects from the Kinavet (which is possible, in particular the vomiting and dehydration and maybe the liver stuff). The reason is that a dog does not quickly pass away like this (in what sounds like multisystem failure) typically from Kinavet. We know the cancer was disseminated and this was the critical issue causing the tipping point.
2. Please also read this post:
http://www.dogcancerblog.com/signs-of-dog-cancer-and-decompensation/

There are more answers that you should read about in the Guide as to cancer progression and causes that would help you, and some steps for you as well that might help.

Best,
Dr D

]]> By: DemianDressler http://www.dogcancerblog.com/dog-cancer-decisions-in-the-gray-zone/comment-page-1/#comment-3193 DemianDressler Sun, 05 Sep 2010 18:14:59 +0000 http://www.dogcancerblog.com/?p=1402#comment-3193 Dear Vicki, this is a good question and a tricky one. You should read the sections on treatment plan analysis in the Guide. I will be writing a blog post as well that will help answer questions like these so stay tuned- should be up today. Best, Dr D Dear Vicki,
this is a good question and a tricky one. You should read the sections on treatment plan analysis in the Guide. I will be writing a blog post as well that will help answer questions like these so stay tuned- should be up today.
Best,
Dr D

]]> By: Vicki http://www.dogcancerblog.com/dog-cancer-decisions-in-the-gray-zone/comment-page-1/#comment-3191 Vicki Fri, 03 Sep 2010 21:34:45 +0000 http://www.dogcancerblog.com/?p=1402#comment-3191 My dog Bodie was just diagnosed with osteosarcoma in his front left leg. The vet recommended amputation for pain management which I understand and would not object to, my question concerns his age. He is a 12.5 year old lab mix. Do you think this surgery is too "big" for such an old dog? He is otherwise healthy, the cancer is has not spread and he is happy. They said w/ surgery and chemo he only has 10-12 months on average. I want his final months to be pain free but I dont want him to have to endure a major surgery if it's not needed. What are your thoughts? Thank you. Vicki My dog Bodie was just diagnosed with osteosarcoma in his front left leg. The vet recommended amputation for pain management which I understand and would not object to, my question concerns his age. He is a 12.5 year old lab mix. Do you think this surgery is too “big” for such an old dog? He is otherwise healthy, the cancer is has not spread and he is happy. They said w/ surgery and chemo he only has 10-12 months on average. I want his final months to be pain free but I dont want him to have to endure a major surgery if it’s not needed. What are your thoughts? Thank you. Vicki

]]> By: Tricia http://www.dogcancerblog.com/dog-cancer-decisions-in-the-gray-zone/comment-page-1/#comment-3179 Tricia Sat, 28 Aug 2010 02:22:52 +0000 http://www.dogcancerblog.com/?p=1402#comment-3179 My 11 1/2 years old golden retriever, Honey, passed away Monday August 23. Her path report noted liver cancer - primary hepatic/biliary carcinoma but could also be metastastic - so no definitive report. Her last ultrasound, taken on the 18th, showed that 2 lymph nodes were greatly enlarged along with her liver. She had had surgery 2 years ago to remove a thyroid tumor in her neck. It had not metastisized and she got along great after surgery. I was told that, if the carcinoma in her liver was thyroid, Kinavet could help. I decided to try the drug. At this point, there was no telltale signs of the cancer. I gave her 200 mg on Wed night; I gave her another 200 mg Thursday night. She was feeling bad and had diarrhea - a small amount; also, her nose started running- water would drip freely from her nose; Friday I came home from work to check on her and found that she had vomited bile; She wouldn't eat Friday but drank water. I decided to stop the Kinavet and called the vet, who agreed and prescribed a nausea tablet. Sat am she had diarrhea; by midday she had drank some water, ginger ale and ate a can of chicken noodle soup by 10pm; however she was totally weak. Sun she wouldn't eat or drink - water was dripping from her nose and her eyes were running, like she was crying. Sun afternoon she vomited very mucousy bile 3 times - I took her to the emergency room and was told she was dehydrated. Mon am the vet called to tell me she had walked around a bit however, her heart chambers were not pumping in sync - the chambers were pumping randomly although there was oxygen in the blood. She was going to monitor Honey another day and do another blood panel. Less than 20 min after the 1st call, she called to tell me her heart had stopped. Could the dehydration with the Kinavet in her system caused her heart to shut down? How long would the Kinavet remain in her system - (she weighed 61 lbs)? I was supposed to give her 200 mg every 24 hours and I gave her the drug on Wed and Thurs. I had breast cancer - mastectomy and chemotherapy. I had a heart check to determine the strength and health of my heart before chemo was started. I realize that my drug was different and of course I'm a human. Could the 400 mg of Kinavet strained/harmed her heart? The vet also told me Mon that she showed signs of jaundice in the whites of her eyes. The cancer was found in her liver -could the Kinavet have stressed her liver enough to cause it to shut down? I got Honey when she was 7 weeks and she has been my child, best friend and companion. I am trying to deal with the reality that she's gone (it's like a bad bad dream ). I made the decision to try the Kinavet as I wanted to keep her with me as long as possible. Please help me find some answers. The vet said that she thought Honey had issues we weren't aware of. It happened so fast. Wed day she ate well, ate several milk bones and went for a walk with me Wed night albeit she walked slow and wasn't her usual perky self. Mon she was gone. If her cancer was advanced, would she have gone so fast in the course of 4 days? Please help me. My 11 1/2 years old golden retriever, Honey, passed away Monday August 23. Her path report noted liver cancer – primary hepatic/biliary carcinoma but could also be metastastic – so no definitive report. Her last ultrasound, taken on the 18th, showed that 2 lymph nodes were greatly enlarged along with her liver. She had had surgery 2 years ago to remove a thyroid tumor in her neck. It had not metastisized and she got along great after surgery. I was told that, if the carcinoma in her liver was thyroid, Kinavet could help. I decided to try the drug. At this point, there was no telltale signs of the cancer. I gave her 200 mg on Wed night; I gave her another 200 mg Thursday night. She was feeling bad and had diarrhea – a small amount; also, her nose started running- water would drip freely from her nose; Friday I came home from work to check on her and found that she had vomited bile; She wouldn’t eat Friday but drank water. I decided to stop the Kinavet and called the vet, who agreed and prescribed a nausea tablet. Sat am she had diarrhea; by midday she had drank some water, ginger ale and ate a can of chicken noodle soup by 10pm; however she was totally weak. Sun she wouldn’t eat or drink – water was dripping from her nose and her eyes were running, like she was crying. Sun afternoon she vomited very mucousy bile 3 times – I took her to the emergency room and was told she was dehydrated. Mon am the vet called to tell me she had walked around a bit however, her heart chambers were not pumping in sync – the chambers were pumping randomly although there was oxygen in the blood. She was going to monitor Honey another day and do another blood panel. Less than 20 min after the 1st call, she called to tell me her heart had stopped. Could the dehydration with the Kinavet in her system caused her heart to shut down? How long would the Kinavet remain in her system – (she weighed 61 lbs)? I was supposed to give her 200 mg every 24 hours and I gave her the drug on Wed and Thurs. I had breast cancer – mastectomy and chemotherapy. I had a heart check to determine the strength and health of my heart before chemo was started. I realize that my drug was different and of course I’m a human. Could the 400 mg of Kinavet strained/harmed her heart? The vet also told me Mon that she showed signs of jaundice in the whites of her eyes. The cancer was found in her liver -could the Kinavet have stressed her liver enough to cause it to shut down? I got Honey when she was 7 weeks and she has been my child, best friend and companion. I am trying to deal with the reality that she’s gone (it’s like a bad bad dream ). I made the decision to try the Kinavet as I wanted to keep her with me as long as possible. Please help me find some answers. The vet said that she thought Honey had issues we weren’t aware of. It happened so fast. Wed day she ate well, ate several milk bones and went for a walk with me Wed night albeit she walked slow and wasn’t her usual perky self. Mon she was gone. If her cancer was advanced, would she have gone so fast in the course of 4 days? Please help me.

]]> By: Dr. Dressler http://www.dogcancerblog.com/dog-cancer-decisions-in-the-gray-zone/comment-page-1/#comment-2748 Dr. Dressler Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:15:20 +0000 http://www.dogcancerblog.com/?p=1402#comment-2748 Dear Matt, Although it is possible you have a cure, the mitotic index suggests that it may be a more aggressive (and potentially life threatening) cancer. The issue of margins does not really apply to cancers that tend to spread to distant sites: http://www.dogcancerblog.com/dog-cancer-what-is-micrometastasis-and-why-do-we-care/ I hope this helps, Best, Dr D Dear Matt,
Although it is possible you have a cure, the mitotic index suggests that it may be a more aggressive (and potentially life threatening) cancer. The issue of margins does not really apply to cancers that tend to spread to distant sites:
http://www.dogcancerblog.com/dog-cancer-what-is-micrometastasis-and-why-do-we-care/
I hope this helps,
Best,
Dr D

]]> By: Matt http://www.dogcancerblog.com/dog-cancer-decisions-in-the-gray-zone/comment-page-1/#comment-2712 Matt Tue, 06 Apr 2010 14:40:48 +0000 http://www.dogcancerblog.com/?p=1402#comment-2712 Dr. Dressler, my almost 6 year old American Bulldog just had a mast cell tumor removed, it was a grade II with mitotic index of 9. She is overall healthy happy and now that the stitches are removed seems to be back to normal. Met with oncologist who recommended Vinblastine and Pred for 8 weeks. My question, the tumor removed had clean margins, they got it all according to pathologist, is chemo worth the side effects given this bad tumor was removed cleanly? This dog gets really nervous at the vet, stresses her out badly, very badly. I hate to take her to the oncologist for 8 weeks unless I knew it was worthwhile for her life. Any comments or recomendations for me on a cleanly excised grade II tumor with mitotic index of 9? Is it possible that it is cured now??? Dr. Dressler, my almost 6 year old American Bulldog just had a mast cell tumor removed, it was a grade II with mitotic index of 9. She is overall healthy happy and now that the stitches are removed seems to be back to normal. Met with oncologist who recommended Vinblastine and Pred for 8 weeks. My question, the tumor removed had clean margins, they got it all according to pathologist, is chemo worth the side effects given this bad tumor was removed cleanly? This dog gets really nervous at the vet, stresses her out badly, very badly. I hate to take her to the oncologist for 8 weeks unless I knew it was worthwhile for her life. Any comments or recomendations for me on a cleanly excised grade II tumor with mitotic index of 9? Is it possible that it is cured now???

]]> By: Dr. Dressler http://www.dogcancerblog.com/dog-cancer-decisions-in-the-gray-zone/comment-page-1/#comment-2231 Dr. Dressler Sat, 23 Jan 2010 09:10:39 +0000 http://www.dogcancerblog.com/?p=1402#comment-2231 Dear Allie The mitotic index refers to the biopsy of the cancer itself, not a lymph node. Which are you referring to here? Dr D Dear Allie
The mitotic index refers to the biopsy of the cancer itself, not a lymph node. Which are you referring to here?
Dr D

]]> By: Cindi http://www.dogcancerblog.com/dog-cancer-decisions-in-the-gray-zone/comment-page-1/#comment-2195 Cindi Mon, 18 Jan 2010 21:43:38 +0000 http://www.dogcancerblog.com/?p=1402#comment-2195 Your book and blog don't mention hemangiopericytoma or fibrosarcoma. Any input on those? I'm also wondering if your vitamin D information is up to date. Vitamin D levels can definitely be improved in humans, and the current recommendations for the majority of people is 10,000 IU for 6 months, then test levels. This is considered the #1 bang for your buck regarding cancer. So it would be surprising to me that dogs really can't benefit from supplements, and I wonder if they truly get toxicity at low levels, or if that is that old information. A year ago a lot of doctors were saying that people could get toxicity from 1000 or 2000mg of D. And that has been proven as false. Your book and blog don’t mention hemangiopericytoma or fibrosarcoma. Any input on those?

I’m also wondering if your vitamin D information is up to date.
Vitamin D levels can definitely be improved in humans, and the current recommendations for the majority of people is 10,000 IU for 6 months, then test levels. This is considered the #1 bang for your buck regarding cancer.

So it would be surprising to me that dogs really can’t benefit from supplements, and I wonder if they truly get toxicity at low levels, or if that is that old information. A year ago a lot of doctors were saying that people could get toxicity from 1000 or 2000mg of D. And that has been proven as false.

]]> By: Allie http://www.dogcancerblog.com/dog-cancer-decisions-in-the-gray-zone/comment-page-1/#comment-2190 Allie Sun, 17 Jan 2010 16:53:53 +0000 http://www.dogcancerblog.com/?p=1402#comment-2190 Hi Dr. Dressler, I just came across this post and was wondering if you could help me with a question? My dog had a grade II MCT on her skin that was removed in August 2008 and we found in August 2009 that it has spread to a lymph node on her chest. That was removed with clean margins and she underwent chemo (vinblastine and pred) and is doing well. I came across this post and went and checked her records (which I got from the clinic thanks to your ebook) and saw that it said "one or two" cells were in mitosis per 400x field (on the pathology report from the lymph node.) So, what would be the mitotic index for that? Is it one or two? Or higher? My dog's oncologist did not mention M.I. to me, and I did not think to ask about it at the time. Thank you! Allie Hi Dr. Dressler,

I just came across this post and was wondering if you could help me with a question? My dog had a grade II MCT on her skin that was removed in August 2008 and we found in August 2009 that it has spread to a lymph node on her chest. That was removed with clean margins and she underwent chemo (vinblastine and pred) and is doing well.

I came across this post and went and checked her records (which I got from the clinic thanks to your ebook) and saw that it said “one or two” cells were in mitosis per 400x field (on the pathology report from the lymph node.) So, what would be the mitotic index for that? Is it one or two? Or higher?

My dog’s oncologist did not mention M.I. to me, and I did not think to ask about it at the time.

Thank you!
Allie

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