Comments on: Chemotherapy toxicity in dog cancer: Acetyl-L-Carnitine (ALC) http://www.dogcancerblog.com/chemotherapy-toxicity-in-dog-cancer-acetyl-l-carnitine-alc/ Dr. Demian Dressler, DVM, the dog cancer vet blogs about canine cancer Fri, 10 Sep 2010 20:32:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: paula and jack http://www.dogcancerblog.com/chemotherapy-toxicity-in-dog-cancer-acetyl-l-carnitine-alc/comment-page-1/#comment-3057 paula and jack Tue, 13 Jul 2010 21:40:23 +0000 http://www.dogcancerblog.com/?p=194#comment-3057 My beautiful dog jack had an enlarged liver ,fever and high alt and alk levels about three years ago. va. tech put him on antibiotics ,ursodiol , and a sulfur liquid. i found out the very high protein diet i had him on probably caused his problems. (the vets didn't tell me this, i read about it). so after i put him on a low protein diet, his alk and alt levels were great and he was great for two and a half years. he was 14 then. i noticed he was bony and had muscle wasting and the hair on his tail was sparse and his skin was dry. so against my better judgment i started giving him more protein and neck bones, which he loved. he seemed fine for a few months . then i noticed he couldn't get comfortable when he laid on either side. so he had to sleep on his stomach. i thought it was his hips because they were so bony. then i noticed the glands on his neck were kind of swollen. so i took him to the vet. he took blood and said his hgt was 17, normal is 35 to 55 and he might have cancer but thought it was hemolytic anemia and put him on prednisone, 20mg. 2x daily and tetracycline. it gave him a bleeding ulcer and one week later his hgt was 8.9. so he had lost a lot of blood. i got him some blood at an emer. clinic cause my vet wouldn't call me back during office hours and didn't take emergency call anyway. that cost 900.00. but at that time they said they had no idea why he lost that much blood and recommended i take him somewhere and get an ultrasound. there was a place nearby, so i took him there that day, instead of going to va. tech. which was four hours away. after keeping him there and running tests that day, sending him back to the emer. place that night and then back to their office the next day for more tests, they charged me 1600.00 and told me they didn't know and that i should take him back to va. tech. didn't even know the prednisone caused the bleeding. at the teaching hospital, they told me it was the prednisone and the dose might have been too high. they did needle biopsies of shoulder glands and liver. they did not find cancer in his liver, but it looked bad and they did see cancer in lymph gland. and that all there was was chemo and that some people chose not to do it. so of course i wanted to try it if that was all i had to choose from. after his first treatment of l-asparaginase and vincristine. it was a weekend and they didn't give me any antinausea med. to take home. it was awful. what they gave him wore off on a sat. and no where to get anything until mon. he had bloody stools. but his appetite came back after awhile. his hgt went down some and they gave him ulcer meds. to make this long story a little shorter, after four treatments ,it was wisconsin protocol., i had to take him off it. he had bleeding ulcer after each treatment, AND his glands were bigger! does anyone know why his glands didn't go down? THEN, his kidneys started failing, he had no appetite and started having a shocked look on his face if you came near him. i thought he had ptsd from going through so much . but i think it was seizures or hallucinations from the kidney fail. they got worse, even after sub q fluids and a heart pill to bring blood to the kidneys. so i had to put him to sleep. it was horrible. i feel like the chemo killed him. he had a bad liver, low blood count and a bleeding ulcer. i feel like they should've told me how toxic chemo would be with his other problems. i should have gotten him more blood after the first chemo treatment, but my vet didn't say it, so i thought it would build up on it's own. and that emer. place charged 900.00. low blood volume is very bad for the kidneys. his creatine levels were fine a month before he died. he was14 and a half. i just so wish i would have listened to my own instincts, i kept saying i had him on a high protein diet and just like last time his liver started acting up. i should have just put him back on his low protein diet, got him some more blood and stopped there. he might still be with me today. from the first time i took him for the swollen glands to the time he died, was two months!! i am in shock and feel i was not given enough info to make the right decisions for him. it seems most vets don't know about the too high protein diet or the dangers of chemo. i know of two vets that know about it, but they weren't near me at the time. none of them give enough info . most don't know and want to act like they do, so you get very bad advice. i am shocked at how little they know. most shouldn't be allowed to treat our precious pets. i will never get over this. i want my sweet jack back so bad. than My beautiful dog jack had an enlarged liver ,fever and high alt and alk levels about three years ago. va. tech put him on antibiotics ,ursodiol , and a sulfur liquid. i found out the very high protein diet i had him on probably caused his problems. (the vets didn’t tell me this, i read about it). so after i put him on a low protein diet, his alk and alt levels were great and he was great for two and a half years. he was 14 then. i noticed he was bony and had muscle wasting and the hair on his tail was sparse and his skin was dry. so against my better judgment i started giving him more protein and neck bones, which he loved. he seemed fine for a few months . then i noticed he couldn’t get comfortable when he laid on either side. so he had to sleep on his stomach. i thought it was his hips because they were so bony. then i noticed the glands on his neck were kind of swollen. so i took him to the vet. he took blood and said his hgt was 17, normal is 35 to 55 and he might have cancer but thought it was hemolytic anemia and put him on prednisone, 20mg. 2x daily and tetracycline. it gave him a bleeding ulcer and one week later his hgt was 8.9. so he had lost a lot of blood. i got him some blood at an emer. clinic cause my vet wouldn’t call me back during office hours and didn’t take emergency call anyway. that cost 900.00. but at that time they said they had no idea why he lost that much blood and recommended i take him somewhere and get an ultrasound. there was a place nearby, so i took him there that day, instead of going to va. tech. which was four hours away. after keeping him there and running tests that day, sending him back to the emer. place that night and then back to their office the next day for more tests, they charged me 1600.00 and told me they didn’t know and that i should take him back to va. tech. didn’t even know the prednisone caused the bleeding. at the teaching hospital, they told me it was the prednisone and the dose might have been too high. they did needle biopsies of shoulder glands and liver. they did not find cancer in his liver, but it looked bad and they did see cancer in lymph gland. and that all there was was chemo and that some people chose not to do it. so of course i wanted to try it if that was all i had to choose from. after his first treatment of l-asparaginase and vincristine. it was a weekend and they didn’t give me any antinausea med. to take home. it was awful. what they gave him wore off on a sat. and no where to get anything until mon. he had bloody stools. but his appetite came back after awhile. his hgt went down some and they gave him ulcer meds. to make this long story a little shorter, after four treatments ,it was wisconsin protocol., i had to take him off it. he had bleeding ulcer after each treatment, AND his glands were bigger! does anyone know why his glands didn’t go down? THEN, his kidneys started failing, he had no appetite and started having a shocked look on his face if you came near him. i thought he had ptsd from going through so much . but i think it was seizures or hallucinations from the kidney fail. they got worse, even after sub q fluids and a heart pill to bring blood to the kidneys. so i had to put him to sleep. it was horrible. i feel like the chemo killed him. he had a bad liver, low blood count and a bleeding ulcer. i feel like they should’ve told me how toxic chemo would be with his other problems. i should have gotten him more blood after the first chemo treatment, but my vet didn’t say it, so i thought it would build up on it’s own. and that emer. place charged 900.00. low blood volume is very bad for the kidneys. his creatine levels were fine a month before he died. he was14 and a half. i just so wish i would have listened to my own instincts, i kept saying i had him on a high protein diet and just like last time his liver started acting up. i should have just put him back on his low protein diet, got him some more blood and stopped there. he might still be with me today. from the first time i took him for the swollen glands to the time he died, was two months!! i am in shock and feel i was not given enough info to make the right decisions for him. it seems most vets don’t know about the too high protein diet or the dangers of chemo. i know of two vets that know about it, but they weren’t near me at the time. none of them give enough info . most don’t know and want to act like they do, so you get very bad advice. i am shocked at how little they know. most shouldn’t be allowed to treat our precious pets. i will never get over this. i want my sweet jack back so bad. than

]]> By: cindy http://www.dogcancerblog.com/chemotherapy-toxicity-in-dog-cancer-acetyl-l-carnitine-alc/comment-page-1/#comment-2808 cindy Sun, 02 May 2010 19:32:01 +0000 http://www.dogcancerblog.com/?p=194#comment-2808 How much coq10 with L carnitine can you give a 55 pound dog per day who is taking adriamycin for canine lymphoma treatments? And what is the best kind of coq10 to use...powder/wafer/liquid oil or should I just buy human grade and give her 1/2...like 50 mg per day How much coq10 with L carnitine can you give a 55 pound dog per day who is taking adriamycin for canine lymphoma treatments? And what is the best kind of coq10 to use…powder/wafer/liquid oil or should I just buy human grade and give her 1/2…like 50 mg per day

]]> By: DIANA MISCHLER http://www.dogcancerblog.com/chemotherapy-toxicity-in-dog-cancer-acetyl-l-carnitine-alc/comment-page-1/#comment-2680 DIANA MISCHLER Tue, 30 Mar 2010 19:36:52 +0000 http://www.dogcancerblog.com/?p=194#comment-2680 MY 13 YR OLD CAIRN HAS TCC, AND IS BEING TREATED WITH PIROXICAM. MY 13 YR OLD CAIRN HAS TCC, AND IS BEING TREATED WITH PIROXICAM.

]]> By: Mark http://www.dogcancerblog.com/chemotherapy-toxicity-in-dog-cancer-acetyl-l-carnitine-alc/comment-page-1/#comment-2266 Mark Sat, 30 Jan 2010 15:03:06 +0000 http://www.dogcancerblog.com/?p=194#comment-2266 Hi Dr. Dressler, I have a 12 yr old Blue Tick Coonhound "Bleu" that has been diagnosed with Transitional Cell Carcinoma (Bladder). He is otherwise very healthy and playful, and this is the first health issue in his 12 yrs. We started him on Chemotherapy "Mitoxantrone" combined with Deramaxx. I also started him on K9 Immunity and Transfer Factor, and also wanted to start him on Omega 3,6,9 Fish Oil. Do you see any issues with giving him the Omega supplement along with the Chemo. Will it have any adverse reactions, or negative benefits? Also, if you know of any other supplements, or treatments for this type of cancer, please let me know. Thanks so much for the service you provide. Have a great day! ~Mark Hi Dr. Dressler,

I have a 12 yr old Blue Tick Coonhound “Bleu” that has been diagnosed with Transitional Cell Carcinoma (Bladder). He is otherwise very healthy and playful, and this is the first health issue in his 12 yrs.

We started him on Chemotherapy “Mitoxantrone” combined with Deramaxx. I also started him on K9 Immunity and Transfer Factor, and also wanted to start him on Omega 3,6,9 Fish Oil. Do you see any issues with giving him the Omega supplement along with the Chemo. Will it have any adverse reactions, or negative benefits?

Also, if you know of any other supplements, or treatments for this type of cancer, please let me know.

Thanks so much for the service you provide.
Have a great day!
~Mark

]]> By: Dr. Dressler http://www.dogcancerblog.com/chemotherapy-toxicity-in-dog-cancer-acetyl-l-carnitine-alc/comment-page-1/#comment-1628 Dr. Dressler Sun, 27 Sep 2009 17:36:55 +0000 http://www.dogcancerblog.com/?p=194#comment-1628 Virginia, this is a tough question. You really need to ask yourself what your personal feelings are to clarify it. Are you someone who really would rather not have your loved dog experience any side effects from treatment? How about some mild to moderate side effects? If you are comfortable with mild to moderate (some) side effects, you should give the chemo another try, perhaps with a modified chemo plan. If not, then perhaps life quality oriented treatments with minimal to no side effects would be best. I will talk about this question more in this month's webinar if you want to tune in. It will be recorded so you can listen later (www.mydogvet.com). Best Dr D Virginia,
this is a tough question. You really need to ask yourself what your personal feelings are to clarify it. Are you someone who really would rather not have your loved dog experience any side effects from treatment? How about some mild to moderate side effects? If you are comfortable with mild to moderate (some) side effects, you should give the chemo another try, perhaps with a modified chemo plan. If not, then perhaps life quality oriented treatments with minimal to no side effects would be best. I will talk about this question more in this month’s webinar if you want to tune in. It will be recorded so you can listen later (www.mydogvet.com).
Best
Dr D

]]> By: Virginia http://www.dogcancerblog.com/chemotherapy-toxicity-in-dog-cancer-acetyl-l-carnitine-alc/comment-page-1/#comment-1604 Virginia Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:37:41 +0000 http://www.dogcancerblog.com/?p=194#comment-1604 I have a 12 yr. old bloodhound diagnosed with Lymphoma. We started chemo yesterday and she was throwing up today. We got an injection for her and will be giving her pills for her upset stomach. We were told that she has a 50/50 chance of making it one more year and 25% for 2 more years but no guarantees. The pricetag is approx. $8000. My question is this. Is it sensible to put her through therapy at this cost? She is our 3rd bloodhound, the other two only lived to age 8 so we are very please with Opal. She has been healthy her whole life which is another reason the vet said to go for it. Thank you for helping us with this decision and our beloved Opal. Oh and by the way, I lost my 10 year old corgi in June to Lymphoma and DM. I have a 12 yr. old bloodhound diagnosed with Lymphoma. We started chemo yesterday and she was throwing up today. We got an injection for her and will be giving her pills for her upset stomach. We were told that she has a 50/50 chance of making it one more year and 25% for 2 more years but no guarantees. The pricetag is approx. $8000. My question is this. Is it sensible to put her through therapy at this cost? She is our 3rd bloodhound, the other two only lived to age 8 so we are very please with Opal. She has been healthy her whole life which is another reason the vet said to go for it. Thank you for helping us with this decision and our beloved Opal. Oh and by the way, I lost my 10 year old corgi in June to Lymphoma and DM.

]]> By: margie http://www.dogcancerblog.com/chemotherapy-toxicity-in-dog-cancer-acetyl-l-carnitine-alc/comment-page-1/#comment-1374 margie Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:59:04 +0000 http://www.dogcancerblog.com/?p=194#comment-1374 My little 10 yr. old westie also has bladder cancer (tcc). On July 31st. 2009 she had her first chemo (mitoxantrone) and they also dropped her piroxicam to.6ml from 1.0 its only been two weeks but she seems like she is losing ground with alot of blood in her urine. How do I decide to give her another treatment or to just make her comfortable until the end? Will this chemo cure her or just extend her life for a short time? I cant decide what to do, please help. Margie and Sophie ( she was diagnosed in may) My little 10 yr. old westie also has bladder cancer (tcc). On July 31st. 2009 she had her first chemo (mitoxantrone) and they also dropped her piroxicam to.6ml from 1.0 its only been two weeks but she seems like she is losing ground with alot of blood in her urine. How do I decide to give her another treatment or to just make her comfortable until the end? Will this chemo cure her or just extend her life for a short time? I cant decide what to do, please help.
Margie and Sophie ( she was diagnosed in may)

]]> By: Cyndi http://www.dogcancerblog.com/chemotherapy-toxicity-in-dog-cancer-acetyl-l-carnitine-alc/comment-page-1/#comment-1366 Cyndi Sun, 09 Aug 2009 04:34:48 +0000 http://www.dogcancerblog.com/?p=194#comment-1366 Greetings Dr. Dessler- What is the recommended dosage of acetyl-L-carntine? I haven't been able to find the information on-line. Sorry, this note will be long, but my (million dollar!) dog's medical history is pretty complicated. I have a 12 year old neutered male Weimaraner that has survived mast cell cancer for ~8 years. When he was 4 years old, he initially had 9 mast cell tumors pop at once (grade 3) and surgery to remove those, followed by cis-platin chemo. Another set of mast cell tumors cropped up soon thereafter and he had surgery and chemo again. He seemed to be getting more sensitive to the cis-platin and we stopped treatment because of his quality of life. A full year after his last cis-platin chemo treatment, he developed a bunch of necrotic tissue in his abdominal area, exactly in the area of the chemo injections. He had to have surgery to remove all the dead tissue. Over the years, he's had some abdominal ultrasounds (he likes to eat random objects!) and other tests and, despite having the occasional mast cell tumors on his skin, he had no signs of organ involvement. We would get the mast cell tumors cut off as they showed up, but we eventually gave up on that as it didn't make sense to make him go through more surgery. He even returned to work as a search and rescue dog and was seemingly healthy. (Well, and he also ended up needing a hip replacement, but he recovered well from that and again returned to work.) About 2 years ago (6 years post-treatment), we took him to the veterinary neurologist because of rear leg weakness. After extensive testing, they were unable to identify the problem and labeled it as "degenerative neuropathy". (He's even been tested for a genetic marker for degenerative myelopathy through a research program.) They didn't think his neuropathy was due to the cis-platin. They did recommend that we supplement with CoQ10 and L-carnitine. (He's also been on a quality food/high protein diet and taken fish oil.) We have been doing that everyday for the last few years. His leg weakness (and muscle atrophy) have, unfortunately, gotten progressively worse. I'm wondering if he's getting enough L-carnitine and if there is any evidence it can help a long time after chemo treatment. (Wish we would have known of the potential problem during treatment.) Is there any evidence that the neuropathy problems can start many years after chemo treatment? He seemed under the weather a few weekends ago. I took him in for a check-up (thinking maybe his thryoid med was off- his thyroid stopped working when he was 1 years old) and, sadly, it turns out he has lymphoma. He was staged a few weeks ago and he's Stage IV. (Wow, it must move fast because he had barely palpable lymph nodes and then all external lymph nodes were clearly visible within 4 days.) His bone marrow came back clean. We started the vet oncologists chemo protocol for lymphoma (so far, one treatment of vincristine and Cytoxan and prednisone). Not sure how much more we want this brave guy to endure but, so far, he seems to not be as adversely affected by these chemo drugs as he was by the cis-platin. He's been a great dog (saved over 10 people in his work) and we want to do the best for him. Of course, we'd love more time with him, but we do not want to cause him any more discomfort. Our plan is to see if he responds and if his quality of life declines, we will stop treatment. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you! Greetings Dr. Dessler- What is the recommended dosage of acetyl-L-carntine? I haven’t been able to find the information on-line. Sorry, this note will be long, but my (million dollar!) dog’s medical history is pretty complicated. I have a 12 year old neutered male Weimaraner that has survived mast cell cancer for ~8 years. When he was 4 years old, he initially had 9 mast cell tumors pop at once (grade 3) and surgery to remove those, followed by cis-platin chemo. Another set of mast cell tumors cropped up soon thereafter and he had surgery and chemo again. He seemed to be getting more sensitive to the cis-platin and we stopped treatment because of his quality of life. A full year after his last cis-platin chemo treatment, he developed a bunch of necrotic tissue in his abdominal area, exactly in the area of the chemo injections. He had to have surgery to remove all the dead tissue. Over the years, he’s had some abdominal ultrasounds (he likes to eat random objects!) and other tests and, despite having the occasional mast cell tumors on his skin, he had no signs of organ involvement. We would get the mast cell tumors cut off as they showed up, but we eventually gave up on that as it didn’t make sense to make him go through more surgery. He even returned to work as a search and rescue dog and was seemingly healthy. (Well, and he also ended up needing a hip replacement, but he recovered well from that and again returned to work.) About 2 years ago (6 years post-treatment), we took him to the veterinary neurologist because of rear leg weakness. After extensive testing, they were unable to identify the problem and labeled it as “degenerative neuropathy”. (He’s even been tested for a genetic marker for degenerative myelopathy through a research program.) They didn’t think his neuropathy was due to the cis-platin. They did recommend that we supplement with CoQ10 and L-carnitine. (He’s also been on a quality food/high protein diet and taken fish oil.) We have been doing that everyday for the last few years. His leg weakness (and muscle atrophy) have, unfortunately, gotten progressively worse. I’m wondering if he’s getting enough L-carnitine and if there is any evidence it can help a long time after chemo treatment. (Wish we would have known of the potential problem during treatment.) Is there any evidence that the neuropathy problems can start many years after chemo treatment?

He seemed under the weather a few weekends ago. I took him in for a check-up (thinking maybe his thryoid med was off- his thyroid stopped working when he was 1 years old) and, sadly, it turns out he has lymphoma. He was staged a few weeks ago and he’s Stage IV. (Wow, it must move fast because he had barely palpable lymph nodes and then all external lymph nodes were clearly visible within 4 days.) His bone marrow came back clean. We started the vet oncologists chemo protocol for lymphoma (so far, one treatment of vincristine and Cytoxan and prednisone). Not sure how much more we want this brave guy to endure but, so far, he seems to not be as adversely affected by these chemo drugs as he was by the cis-platin. He’s been a great dog (saved over 10 people in his work) and we want to do the best for him. Of course, we’d love more time with him, but we do not want to cause him any more discomfort. Our plan is to see if he responds and if his quality of life declines, we will stop treatment. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you!

]]> By: Edith & Leotrio http://www.dogcancerblog.com/chemotherapy-toxicity-in-dog-cancer-acetyl-l-carnitine-alc/comment-page-1/#comment-588 Edith & Leotrio Thu, 12 Feb 2009 16:22:22 +0000 http://www.dogcancerblog.com/?p=194#comment-588 I've lost since 2004 two leos due to cancer, one mammary ca., mam.glands removed, she was fine for 18 months, than recidives and the cancer metastated (finally squameous cell ca.) - the other one died from liver-ca. and he was fine till the very last day; we tried to so an operation as we were not sure about the symptoms (could have as well been a ruptured spleen) - finally we found cancerous noddles on both liver parts - and so we had to let him go......... I am now mainly interested to AVOID - if any possible - cancer in my Leos and as well to be prepared for "alternative" methods in case it should happen to us. The breed is on medium risk for haemangiosarcoma, osteosarcom and females for mammary ca. I did work in the medical field for several years and I am also a holistic animal therapeut (homeopathy, Bach Flower remedies, phytotherapy etc.), got the chance to do volunteer work on animal hospitals and I am always eager to learn more as cancer seems to be the #1 problem for humans and animals. Thanks ! I’ve lost since 2004 two leos due to cancer, one mammary ca., mam.glands removed, she was fine for 18 months, than recidives and the cancer metastated (finally squameous cell ca.) – the other one died from liver-ca. and he was fine till the very last day; we tried to so an operation as we were not sure about the symptoms (could have as well been a ruptured spleen) – finally we found cancerous noddles on both liver parts – and so we had to let him go……… I am now mainly interested to AVOID – if any possible – cancer in my Leos and as well to be prepared for “alternative” methods in case it should happen to us. The breed is on medium risk for haemangiosarcoma, osteosarcom and females for mammary ca.
I did work in the medical field for several years and I am also a holistic animal therapeut (homeopathy, Bach Flower remedies, phytotherapy etc.), got the chance to do volunteer work on animal hospitals and I am always eager to learn more as cancer seems to be the #1 problem for humans and animals.
Thanks !

]]> By: Dr. Dressler http://www.dogcancerblog.com/chemotherapy-toxicity-in-dog-cancer-acetyl-l-carnitine-alc/comment-page-1/#comment-451 Dr. Dressler Tue, 20 Jan 2009 04:08:30 +0000 http://www.dogcancerblog.com/?p=194#comment-451 Judith, sounds like a tough time for all. Discuss EGCG with your vet. There is a study that supports the idea that EGCG, from green tea, can lessen the amount of peroxicam needed and boost the blood levels of it. Good luck! D Judith, sounds like a tough time for all. Discuss EGCG with your vet. There is a study that supports the idea that EGCG, from green tea, can lessen the amount of peroxicam needed and boost the blood levels of it.
Good luck!
D

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